WaveLab 7 Documentation - questions & answers

[wizardofice]

Thanks. I was confused by the mention of it in the pdf.
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[Bach]

With all respect, as a Wavelab customer for years, I would like to say that I would have upgraded to Wabelab 7 the first day it got released.

I haven't.

Why?

Because I appreciated the printed manual all these years. I was hoping that I would get the upgrade, go through the manual in my spare time away from the PC, learn about the basic changes and new features and then, when I felt that I had a good knowledge of those, I could go on with using WL7 with confidence in front of a client.

I usually read the manuals in my free time and not when I am in front of the computer working.

Now I HAVE to be in front of a computer again with Wavelab installed in it to read the manual!

I am still going to buy WL7 but I really don't know when I am going to do it as this policy has put me off from upgrading instantly.

Omitting a printed manual is a bad move in my opinion, especially for a program as complex as Wavelab.

I am a bit disappointed.
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http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=116736

[Neil Wilkes]

No printed manual is not the end of the world as long as the following 2 options are available.
1 - It MUST be offered for sale.
2 - There MUST be a proper, fully indexed PDF version of the printed manual available for download.

In-app "help" is a PITA, and for me unworkable.
I keep manuals for reading away from computer, and more importantly I do not, under *any* circumstances, want in-app help whilst trying to work.
The manual as a PDF has to be on a separate system, so I can have my lappie to the right with help files & manuals, and the DAW in front of me.
Having to constantly fiddle around with in-app help is hopeless.
This is how Adobe "help" works, and I can assure you from experience it is a workflow killer.
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[fenderchris2]

[Svenne]

[Wodehouse]

Perhaps we should all bill Steinberg for the lost revenue (downtime), caused by Steinberg forcing us to waste time at the workstation reading help-files instead of serving paying clients?!?[/quote]

Let us now how you get on !!!
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[minimalB]

Is there an official statement about proper manual?

PG? Timo?
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Bostjan Pirnar
www.minimal.si

[PG]

>> Is there an official statement about proper manual?

There will be a minor manual update to correct/add some points, but there is no new manual in the works, printed or not. At least in the near future.
I was told some third party companies have some plans, but I don't know more about this now.

Philippe
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Philippe

[wizardofice]

WOW! What a major embarrassment for Steinberg!
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Custom PC with Asus MB M3A78-CM, AMD Quad 4 940 3.1Ghz, 8 G ram, 4 HDs at 750 G each, win 7, Win Vista 64 home, and Win XP home, dual monitors, Cubase 5.5, Wavelab essentials 6, Soundforge 9, CD Archetect, Ozone 4, Melodyne Plugin, Autotune evo, AVOX, Addictive Drums, HSO, Outer Limits, Vocaloid Miriam, T-racks, Amplitube 3, liquid mix, Sampletank 2, Focusrite Saphire pro 40, IK multimedia ARC, Frontier Alphatrack, KRK monitors, Bigknob, Emu PK6, Microkorg, Aphex C2, DBX 166, Voicetone correct, voicetone double, voicetone create, Digitech RP500, POD, 100 miles of cables and a room full of guitars.

[minimalB]

WOW from my side too. I can't believe this is really happening...

Anyway, thanks for info PG, at least we know where we are and how to proceed.
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Bostjan Pirnar
www.minimal.si

[Arjan P]

How embarrassing for a company with such a sophisticated software program, to not be able to produce a comprehensive manual about the many ways to use it, and the depths and backgrounds of the product - and then even to leave it to third party companies. Sad indeed.
_________________
Luck, Arjan
_________________ << WL 6.1 (and 7), Cubase 5.5, XPpro SP3, PentiumD-2.8G, PX-880SA >>
----- There's only 10 types of people: those who do, and those who don't understand bits -----

[PG]

All your arguments have been heard, I hope you've heard mines too. We'll try to improve this topic in the future, in a way or another. But I wanted to be clear, so at least, don't say I waffle
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Philippe

[Arjan P]

PG, you are very clear, and I appreciate very much your efforts in this forum and the way you swiftly respond to any questions or requests. That said, I must say that I haven't heard one single valid argument from the Steinberg side to defend their decision to drop the manual. On the other hand, many arguments from the forum members side have passed in this thread and others. I will not repeat them again, but don't tell me we were in a mature 'debate' here about user manuals.
_________________
Luck, Arjan
_________________ << WL 6.1 (and 7), Cubase 5.5, XPpro SP3, PentiumD-2.8G, PX-880SA >>
----- There's only 10 types of people: those who do, and those who don't understand bits -----

[vinnyburns]

[PG]

I did not try to convince anyone that a large printed manual is not a good idea and does not have benefits.
I am just saying that the current help system is useful and should not be blindly discarded.
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Philippe

[Rome]

The online help might not be a bad thing by itself but a 850$ software without a well written and printed manual is still a bad joke in my book. This is nothing that can be fixed by pointing at 3rd party products (which means 'go and buy Hands on Wavelab' or something like that, I guess).
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[tadpole]

YIKES!

I was hoping that steinberg would listen to their customers' good points and at least offer a PDF manual. So begins a new era of trial and error learning! PG has a wonderful program here. There is a great chance alot of us will be missing out on some of the finer details unless we bump into the info with the HELP section. It's going to be hard to get the big picture. One word - LAME!

PG, you wrote that there will be a minor manual update. I'm not trying to be a wise guy but there is no manual to update, so what is going to get updated? The help PDF or the Wavelab 6 to 7 FAQ PDF?



tadpole
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[PG]

@tadpole: the help contents will be updated (which is also the PDF contents). It already contains 90% (?) of what needs to be known.
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Philippe

[tadpole]

Thanks PG. I'll look forward to getting the extra information. I might even stumble upon this extra info while doing a search in the help feature. Can't be sure though because it won't be presented in linear way.
You have the greatest audio editing software that I've used and I am very grateful. The new help section is quite good but you better not let anyone on the forum hear you call it a manual. There'll be hell to pay!
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[wizardofice]

[playz123]

In brief:

a) A Help system is NOT a manual, nor does it replace a manual...............period.
b) It was just plain DUMB on Steinberg's part to release a product of this complexity and not include a manual.
c) If they aren't already working on a manual, my suggestion is that they need to start...right now. No excuses.
d) Steinberg also should apologize to their WL7 customers, admit not producing a manual was a cost saving idea gone horribly wrong, and offer to get a proper manual to every purchaser a.s.a.p.

Enough about Help files; let's have some information about a soon-to-be-released MANUAL. Thank you.
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[alpierfede]

I waited at least a week before writing this.....because when I started to use Wavelab 7 I can say I was REALLY frustrated....
I am the kind of guy who likes to know deeply the software I'm using, especially when it expensive and as deep as Wavelab.
I've never used Wavelab before and bought it finally when it went out for Mac. So it was completely new for me.
I was used with Steinberg's manuals :Cubase 5 and Halion and those manuals are really well done so I was really surprised when I opened the box..."where is the manual??, well it's probably a PDF.... "
and then I was even more surprised when I started to read the PDF and I became every minute a little more frustrated..... ( I even watched a video lesson for Wavelab 6 for PC...)
So what's the problem??

When you read this "manual" you have to try and try and you don't really understand and then you try again...this actually is more like a reference for someone who knows the program. You don't have a continuous explaining.
Even for something as simple as the CC121 you have a manual!!
I went trough this reference, worked for 10 days non stop and still have the impression things are not clear.
So my question to Steinberg is: Why don't you do a manual in the same way you did for Cubase??

[hotpinkbirds]

+ 1 manual needed asap!

[Bach]

I have expressed my opinion above, however I would like to jump in and say that despite the frustration of the manual missing, I upgraded to Wavelab 7 yesterday, being a loyal Wavelab user for many years.

I love the new look , however I felt like I was fiddling around all the time.

I mean the new Workspaces concept is great, but a Wavelab user is not accustomed to this. So, for me it was very hard to get on working and I was instinctively looking for the MANUAL. There are big changes in Wavelab 7 and for now, I am unable to reveal them all. Even some of the basic function seem to have changed or are moved elsewhere. Don't misunderstand me, I like to see Wavelab changing. I was one of the people that wanted it to change in the first place and I am glad it did.

PG, you have made a great job on Wavelab 7 and I would like to congratulate you, but the lack of manual is disastrous in my opinion. And consider this: It is hard even for a previous Wavelab user to get comfortable with the new update. How is a completely new user (like a Mac user) supposed to learn such a sophisticated program without a proper manual? The help system is there but does not help if you ask me.

Steinberg did not make a wise move dropping the manual for Wavelab in this specific time period. I just hope that a manual will appear even in pdf format.
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http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=116736

[wizardofice]

I just feel like I have been really let down by Steinberg. I upgraded the first day (from essentials to elements) and still feel like I will never get the full use of the program. I wanted to go from wavelab 6 essentials to wavelab 6 full version and decided to wait for 7 because they were never going to fix the cd burning problem they have had for years. Now that Wavelab 7 is out I cannot go all the way to the full version because there is no manual and without that I will never get the full use of the program. At this point I am still using Wavelab essentials to edit and sometimes Elements to burn. Sometimes still using Soundforge and cd archetect as well as I do have a manual for all of those. Guess this is the way it will have to be. Without a manual I would be shooting in the dark.
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[Neil Wilkes]

[studio64]

Just installed WL7, after being a WL4/5/6 user.

Things have been changed so much in WL7, that I definitely need a manual with graphics. Whoever decided on a "Text only" Manual has
got it completly wrong. Impossible to follow.

It has just taken me about 2 hours to get back to an Audio Montage page, which changed to a different view some how.
Trouble is, I dont know how I got back to it.

Please reconsider the production of a proper manual.

The good news is, my CD writer works with WL7.

regards
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[Arjan P]

I got the WL7 boxed version after about a week of its release, but after fiddling for a couple of days I decided I have no time for this. WL7 is sitting idle until I have my new studio ready - and then I'll have to bite the bullit.. Until then, WL6 with its great manual will do just fine.
_________________
Luck, Arjan
_________________ << WL 6.1 (and 7), Cubase 5.5, XPpro SP3, PentiumD-2.8G, PX-880SA >>
----- There's only 10 types of people: those who do, and those who don't understand bits -----

[PG]

>>Trouble is, I dont know how I got back to it.

By clicking on the Switcher window (the small floating window with large icons), you have easy access to the main parts of WaveLab, and to all recent files.

Philippe
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Philippe

[daved]

I am that proverbial, frequently mentioned "new, mac user." I come to Wavelab with a little PC experience via Wavelab 2(!!) and Cool Edit Pro from my days teaching in a university Electronic Media program, but most of my mastering these days is done in soundBlade (RX, and Logic also get a workout over here). I used PCs for ISDN and phone patches at my old job, which was a PTHD based 3 room facility, giving me a little more comfort. And another mac app, DSP Quattro, shares many of the workspace concepts and general approach of Wavelab 7, so I wasn't completely lost. While it was a bit of a nuisance, I didn't mind borrowing a key from the room I work in for demo'ing, and will likely buy one to continue working out the program. Even if it never becomes my "main axe" for mastering, it might be an ideal tool for demos and discussions in a class I teach these days, so I'm pretty motivated to get it going. And while I'd probably be considered an "advanced DAW user", I'm pretty green to PCs in general and Wavelab in particular... essentially, I'm a newbie with a minor clue (dangerous combo?).

From that perspective, I'll start by complimenting Steinberg and Philippe on providing a solid development path over the years, and making the app better in each version. In terms of features, you've got it right: everything needed for mastering and file prep is here. The ability to open and deliver most any file format is unique and impressive to this mastering engineer. While there are quirks in Wavelab (as any app), they are generally consistent in implementation so once you learn things you can apply them to other areas easily enough. Wavelab 7 is as mature as it's number suggests. And the demo runs fairly well on my mac! This is impressive too, for porting an app this complex and deep is a challenge. The first mac build was worth the wait, and I sincerely thank all concerned for taking the time and effort to let us join you.

I'll depart from the consensus and note that while I'd certainly appreciate printed manuals at this stage of my journey, I would be perfectly happy to print the sections I need from a PDF (which in fact is QUITE portable, either through printing, Kindling, iPadding or iPhoning). The problem is content: Lacking diagrams and figures representing individual windows, I'm always lost in the supplied pdf. As it's laid out, I'm sorry to say it borders on useless, and often confuses me. Discussion of Tool Windows and workspace would be greatly enhanced if they were accompanied by screenshots, as the plug in reference section contains. I realize that the "workspace" paradigm prevents you from showing me the entire screen in diagrams - that will always vary by user needs and experience. Show me the section under discussion only though! This problem relates directly to it's derivation from on-screen help. I'm a digital designer by training (and also these days, I teach it) so I have some expertise when I point out that print and screen are two very different media, and must be handled differently. This shouldn't be terribly hard to remedy though. Add some diagrams!

Accuracy is a problem too, but maybe just for new mac users. For instance DDP opening is a task I do every day. I'd prefer a File menu option, related to the normal "Open" command, but maybe that's just the mac-user in me whining? The manual tells me this: "WaveLab can read DDP files by choosing File>Import>Audio DDP Image". This isn't really possible from the windows initially presented over here; I have to go to Global>Montage Workspaces and select the "Ultimate" layout (which I don't care for) to expose this command. Not a bug or problem in the app, but a lack of clarity in the manual.

The other thing that's made this transition hard also relates more to materials than the application: I'm jonesing for a decent new user tutorial, or at very least, some solid demo videos from Steinberg. I tend to learn more quickly by doing, so tutorials get me there much faster than trying to read some giant manual, pdf or paper. I've not found any tutorials at all, so maybe someone can direct me to them if they exist. The "How Do I..." section of the manual doesn't fits this bill at all - it's too simplistic, mechanical, and lacking diagrams and step by step instructions inadequate. It's content is far too limited to be of much use, except in a very specific pinch (why is there nothing on setting up a montage? walking you through a typical mastering scenario? file prep scenario? noise reduction/forensic scenario? etc). The existing videos frequently mentioned in this thread are similarly handicapped. These are great sales-pieces, but not very useful to new users, lacking clear and specific direction entirely. So lets be honest, and call a spade a spade: the videos aren't tutorials by design and intent, and shouldn't be considered replacements for operational demos of specific functions and features.

As to the current docs and help system, I've found it very helpful, and these limitations (lack of figures) are less troubling in context, as Philippe suggests. I bet the designers are working on big screens, not laptops or small screen iMacs though... on smaller screens it's hard to focus on the app with help visible. The mac (maybe PC too?) has more extensive help capabilities than this system uses - for instance, help-scripts can expose menus and suggest options dynamically, in context. This could greatly improve the functionality of the existing materials. Integrating help options with text is good.

I'm sure 3rd parties will fill the gap, given WaveLab's wide market and long pedigree. And I'm willing to work through the shortcomings of the current materials, with the understanding that the major changes from v6 require major, deep revision if not a total re-write. This is something Steinberg can enhance and improve with feedback like this. Based on comments above I suspect many who insist on printed manuals might grudgingly accept clearer, fully illustrated PDFs they can print themselves, or display on another screen/machine. There's surely room for compromise here; Steinberg should recognize there's a problem with the layout, users should recognize that printing 400 page manuals (which will balloon back to 700 or so with illustration) adds significant cost to a package that costs less than it's predecessor (DDP and other options are now standard), and represents a level of functionality fairly unique on any platform. If nothing else, users should recognize that resource allocation is always a variable, and in relative terms atoms cost more than bits to shape, ship and shop. Inevitable spoilage (shelf copies remaining when v8 appears) is another significantly greater cost for print. So as others have noted, a paid option is a possible fair compromise for all parties.

But putting things in perspective, to a newbie mac guy these are mostly problems in packaging that are easily remedied. I'd hope Steinberg would update the manual to include illustrations in a timely manner, and eventually address the need/desire for printed manuals if only through an optional upgrade or packaging alternative. As the features and manuals stabilize in v7, it would be helpful to have some decent tutorial videos too. Still v7 on the mac is a positive milestone for users and Steinberg. It was a major change, alongside the paradigm shift in the app itself, and the stability of this first draft is admirably solid. I'm willing to wait for a little help to dig deeper, as I'm hitting a wall puzzling things out with current docs and instructional materials. Philippe's done his job well, so I'd expect his counterparts working on documentation to perform as well, given the feedback in this thread.

Thanks and Congratulations Philippe and Steinberg! Welcome to the mac.

-d-
Dave Davis • the all night party • music | media | design