Akai EWI USB controlling VSTs in Cubase 5

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Hi,

I am currently using my Akai EWI USB to control the VST WIVI Trumpet (http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/), and it works great! Once a note starts you can change the volume by blowing harder or softer without having to stop and start the note again. The Wallander Instruments are designed to use a breath controller, so I can see why it works this way. Is there a way to have other VSTs work this way as well? For example, can the Prologue, HALion Symphonic Orchestra or HalionOne be setup this way?

Thanks,
Ernie Young

Robin Heuristic · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:34 am Post subject:

Hi, while not familiar with your EWI, if you can send controller 7 from the EWI, you can at least control the volume level of the VSTi output, if not directly the gain control of the plug itself. Try using the generic remote on the mixer! It's in the manual!
_________________
Heuristic
NorthWood MediaWorks
| Cubase 5.52 64bit & 32bit | Jbridge | HSO | WaveLab 6e | MOTU PCI424-24io | Mackie 24*8 | Q6600 | Win7-64 |
"More music, less war."

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Hi Robin,

Thank you for the information about Generic Remote, which will come in handy. I tried that and it does change the overall volume but not the note volume. It is turning the track output volume up and down which changes the volume of the effects and everything.

When I record using the EWI USB the volume data is being sent, but the VST Instruments other than WIVI don't change volume after the initial note volume is sent. For example you can blow harder thus increasing the volume data being sent, and then change the note and it will jump to that volume. The WIVI Instruments allow one to change the volume while the note is being held which provides a rich natural sound experience. When I look at the information recorded in Cubase 5, it has the CC2 Breath Controller data recorded, but the Prologue, HALionOne and HALion Symphonic Orchestra don't respond, and I am not finding a setting to allow them to respond. I am hoping there is some setting that will allow those VST Instruments to respond to the data.

Thanks,
Ernie Young

Robin Heuristic · Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:21 am Post subject:

There must be other windy types around here (and I am sure that adjective will spark some mirth Laughing

) who will be able to advise... I play keys, so aftertouch and velocity are things I am more familiar with!

Wife accuses of me being windy, but that's not electronica now is it! Embarassed

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Are there any EWI players that use it to control Cubase 5 VSTs, or any other VSTs?

Thanks,
Ernie Young

afernan

Using EWI USB under C5 it crashes after some time playing. I can not determine why or due to what the chrash occurs.

Then I need to restart all (C5, the sound card, the EWI) Really a big crash

I checked it with different VST´s (Kontakt, ARIA, Embracer, etc) in all is the same

Any idea?
_________________
PC WINDOWS 7-64bits/8Gb RAM; MOTU Ultralite; M-Audio FW Audiophile
C5.1, KONTAKT 4.0.2, VSL Special Edition;
EWI USB, YAMAHA BC3 + ANATEK WIND MACHINE
Piano/ Jazz, Classical, Orchestral, Soundtrack

John Reid · Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject:

Any plugins you want to control first need to have been programmed in a way that allows for control of some parameter via MIDI. Then you need to figure out how to get your breath controller to send that particular MIDI controller to the plugin. If your breath controller can't send it natively, then there are various tricks you can use to transform a controller it can send (e.g. expression) into something the plugin can react to.

Strictly this is not an issue restricted to the use of wind controllers, it's a more general topic on how MIDI continuous controllers (CC) work, but in a nutshell if you can get something to send CC information, then there are thousands of ways to transform it into something that will change the sound of a plugin. You can use Cubase's own MIDI Transformer for example, to change CC2 (breath control) to CC7 (volume) or CC11 (expression). If the plugin doesn't repond, you might use tricks like placing the MIDI Gate VST as an insert in the audio out from the VSTi, and send controller data (transformed to note numbers) to control the MIDI Gate. Let your imagination run wild ... the Tonic filter and others like Wah Wah and Rotary can be controlled by MIDI as well.
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ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Afernan,

I am not sure what is causing the crashing, but the EWI USB works very nicely with the Cubase 5 Studio setup I have. Here are the 3 configuration screens for my EWI USB, which might be worth checking.

Setup Controls: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/ewyoung007/screen1.jpg

Performance Controls: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/ewyoung007/screen2.jpg

Controller Configuration: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/ewyoung007/screen3.jpg

Ernie Young

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Hi John,

Yes one can change what is being controlled as you list, but what I am wanting are VSTs that are configured to respond to CC2 (Breath Control). WIVI and the instruments work great! It is amazing the control one has over the sound, very much like playing the real instrument.

Ernie Young

valsolim · Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:57 pm Post subject:

Hello, Ernie,

nice to meet another EWI player! Smile

I can describe my way of tweaking some Prologue presets to be nicely playable by EWI:

- At first, set EWI to send Aftertouch as Breath CC1 (or Breath CC2).
- In Prologue, go to the Event panel and delete the mapping for Velocity (if there is any) since Velocity should not be mapped to Volume in Prologue.
- Map Aftertouch to Volume with some high factor (90 or so).
- For even more realistic wind instrument response, set the first modulation envelope in Prologue to have a relatively long attack, short decay, high sustain, and a very short release. Map this first envelope to Volume.
- In the Event panel in Prologue, map Velocity to ENV1 Attack with a negative factor (e.g. -35). This way, bigger initial breath pressure (which is recognized as Velocity) will make the attack shorter.

I assume a similar procedure could work also for the other VST's, however, I haven't experimented with tweaking any other VST yet.

Best regards
--
Miloslav
_________________
Cubase 5, Plogue Bidule, Melda plugins, NI Kontakt 4, TC Konnekt 24D, Akai EWI USB, Boss BR-1200CD, Roland FC-300, Yamaha KX49

John Reid · Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject:

valsolim · Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject:

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Hi Miloslav,

I like how valsolim is the backwards spelling of Miloslav.

Thank you for the tips for configuring Prologue, which I will be trying! In my experience the WIVI VST, being designed for the breath controller, works so much better than trying to tweak settings that simulate breath control. The actual resultant sound is not the same and sounds artificial. Maybe your settings for Prologue will sound better than I am expecting!

I wish designers would actually use breath control. It seems rather useless to me for the Brass and Woodwind sounds in HSO to not have breath control. The sound is not good. One has to design the musical creation in a way where people don't immediately notice the problems, but that limits the possibilities greatly! I don't use HSO as it just doesn't sound good.

As John brings to light, we can use CC2 (breath control) to control other parameters that are actually part of the sounds, but they aren't the same.

Has anyone here experienced WIVI (http://www.wallanderinstruments.com/)?

Thanks,
Ernie Young

afernan

Nice to hear other EWI USB players insid CUBASE.

Really the main problem came from the heavy crash that came when playing.

I have been testing the ARIA player extensively (under VISTA 64 bits + C5) and it works fine.

Seems to be some incompatibility between the driver of EWI USB and C5 running under 64 bits. I have checked under Vista 32 and even in MAC OSX and ir runs perfect (also I´ve checked under LOGIC in OSX)

Also it runs well playing the ARIA standalone under VISTA 64. SO, IMO the problem is inside C5.

Thanks for some ideas to test.
_________________
PC WINDOWS 7-64bits/8Gb RAM; MOTU Ultralite; M-Audio FW Audiophile
C5.1, KONTAKT 4.0.2, VSL Special Edition;
EWI USB, YAMAHA BC3 + ANATEK WIND MACHINE
Piano/ Jazz, Classical, Orchestral, Soundtrack

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Hi all,

I am not sure how much people will like my music, but here is a link to an improvisation I did using the EWI USB and the WIVI C Trumpet, which is my modification of the stock Trumpet 1 WIVI sound. This might help you get an idea of what I am looking for in other VST instruments.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res924li/TrumpetImprovisations/Trumpet%20Improvisation%2016.mp3

Thanks,
Ernie Young

John Reid · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject:

There's another section of the forum where VSTis are discussed ... you might get more suggestions there, or possibly in the hardware section. You should certainly try out the free Kore player, and there are some very reasonable packs you can download and add on if you like it.
_________________
C5.5.2 x64/x86 | WL7.0.1.522 | HSO | eLC 6.1.4.1047 | W7x64 Q6600 4GB | RME RayDAT + MOTU 828MkII FW + Behringer ADA8000 | AlphaTrack

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

John,

Thank you for all your suggestions and help! Smile

Ernie Young

Phil999 · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject:

VSTi's that respond very well to wind-controllers are from the company Samplemodeling. These and the WIVI instruments are the best ones to date, as far as I know.

I know the problem with 'ordinary' virtual synths and samplers. The already given suggestions are the only thing that we can do. Kontakt 4 haven't arrived at my place yet, but with its new AET feature it may be possible to be more flexible.
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Cubase5.5.2, Fast Track Ultra. EWI 4000s, AlphaTrack, BCF&BCR, Drehbank, R2M, 16/3 sequencer, FCB 1010, Mackie C4 Pro. CR-78, TR-808, Formant modular system, MS-20, PPG wave 2.2. SampleModeling brass, Largo, Moog Modular V, MTron, FM8.

ewyoung · New Member Joined: 28 Jan 2007 Posts: 14

Phil999,

Thank you for the post. I will just be more patient and wait for what develops in the future. If more players are aware of the possibilities and show a desire to purchase products that provide the realism then maybe more developers would create the products.

Thanks,
Ernie Young