overpriced by a LONG way!

Eddie Macarthur · Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: overpriced by a LONG way!

£299 for a single motorised fader and some knobs...
£150 is what i reckoned when i saw the spec.
at the rrp, i doubt it will sell. shame.
Ed
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hansfunk · New Member Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Posts: 11

Could not agree with you more.

£150 was also what I was thinking when I first saw it.
£200 would have been justifiable, but still too much.
£250 would have made me think real long and hard before getting it.
£300 is highway robbery.

assinger · Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:51 am Post subject:

I wonder why it is so much cheaper (nearly £80) in the US....... Question

swingstate · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:25 am Post subject:

Wouldn't be surprised if they offer some kind of add-on with more faders at some point. I agree that just one is not enough. For me anyway...
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Angus Baigent · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:

When looking at the price ou also have to take into account questions like: What quality are the components and build materials that I'm buying? How well is this integrated into Cubase? Those are aspects that have to accounted for when comparing CC121 with Faderport or Alphatrack pricewise (I assume that you mean these products as they are in that price range roughly). Eddie, have you already actually tried a CC121 out at a store? Put an Alphatrack next to CC121, and try out the quality and feel of the components, the full metal casing, the pro-quality fader etc. Not saying that, say, Alphatrack is worse as a product for what it is, because the price point and the quality of the components are different to CC121. And don't forget the integration and 'fit' with Cubase - that's also development-wise something that is not easily achievable and requires substantial research and development.

Eddie Macarthur · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject:

hi angus. thanks for input. i haven't tried one in the flesh, mainly because at this price it wouldn't be on my list. at £200 i'd give it a fair trial.
it looks a great product, but the balance of features/price looks wrong to me.
if it was black or red; that would be different! (yes, what a shallow bunch we are...)
ed
Smile

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Angus Baigent · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject:

Red, really? I imagine that might be a bit overbearing or loud on your desktop... But interesting that you mention that the balance "looks" wrong, because the main strengths are ones that you feel (build quality), and that come out when you're using it with Cubase. You might not "see" those benefits straight away when looking at a spec sheet, though. If your maximum budget is 200 pounds, I'd say give a try at the store and ask the dealer for a good price Smile

Eddie Macarthur · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:

yup; i'll see if i can get hands on experience soon. p.s. my pod is bright red and all musicians who come to the studio love to pick it up. guess it's like a car...
ed
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Angus Baigent · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

True, I've got one too. I think they've kind of cornered the market for red desktop audio equipment Smile

hansfunk · New Member Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Posts: 11

wehurlbert · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:20 am Post subject:

Hi,

After having purchased and returned the Faderport (? the Frontier one), and having played
with the one from Presonus, I'd say the cc121 is well worth twice either of them, which is
basically what I paid for it (US price is $399).

The fader is not quite the silky smooth I expected, but not bad and I think better than either
of the others. The buttons and knobs, and quality of the box, are way better than the others.

It works well with Cubase and I'm quite happy with it.

My complaints are:

The AI knob only works on controls programmed for it. I initially thought they were just
simulating a mouse, and so it would work with any control e.g. third party VSTi's. Not so,
too bad.

It only works with Cubase. That can be fixed, I think. The cc121 doesn't come online until
it starts getting short Yamaha sysex messages - Cubase sends these 8 byte sysex messages
once a second to it. Any kind of midi monitor will show you that, and you can simulate that
behavior in another sequencer, or a small dedicated MIDI program. Once you start sending
the messages it will come on line. When you do this, you can see the various messages it
sends for the controls, and you can train e.g. Live to respond to them. However, it appears
that Cubase responds to the control movements with responses which cause e.g. the appropriate
buttons to light up. So what is needed, and what I'm sure will appear, is a little midi stream
interceptor program, which will 1) send the sysex stream to the cc121, 2) catch and remap
(if desired) the messages from the cc121, 3) send the (possibly remapped) messages on to
the destination e.g. another sequencer, and 4) send messages back to the cc121 which will
cause the appropriate buttons to light up. Not sure about the motorized fader, but I think
that can be accommodated also.

Why Steinberg/Yamaha would have done things this way is beyond me. It shouldn't need
the sysex stream to come alive. They should have made it programmable, or at least
included a Mackie emulation mode. Sheesh!

-Wayne
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assinger · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:17 am Post subject:

I'm sure, that the built quality of the CC121 is great and that it is well worth the price - in US $!!! What I don't get is why we Europeans almost always have to pay (much) more even for products that are built by european companys, my Diezel VH-4 being a praiseworthy exception. All other music relatet products I own are up to 40% more expensive than in the US. Confused

jimzepellin · Junior Member Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 44

Eddie Macarthur took the word right out of my mouth.

A fader and a few knobs.

I've got plenty of things that are built to a great standard. Some have faders (lots) some have knobs some have faders and knobs(lots) and I have bucket loads of stuff that is not music related, some with beautiful build quality. They all have way more facilities or are so much cheaper. So the build quality cuts no mustard with me. A fader and a few knobs?

Jérôme · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject:

Hi !

Price has dropped down already. For instance, 359 euros from Musik Produktiv. It may drop a bit more in the few months to come.

If it happens to get down to 299 euros, I am sure it will sell very well.
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swingstate · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject:

I think given a little time the market will drive the price down some. I'm waiting to see, though I'd really like to see one up close. Dealers near me (in Chicago subs!) haven't received anything from SB yet. The pot-heads at all 3 Guitar Centers within a drive of my studio that I talked to didn't even know what it was when I called. One guy thought it was a stomp pedal. Apparently not even the SB retail training video has made it to the Midwest yet. Confused

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frankt · Junior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Posts: 16

Rome · Member Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 600 Location: HH | DE

I agree.

Look at CC121: It is a metal case with one motorized fader and a hand full of knobs and buttons and an USB connector. I don't think this device needs something like a high end DSP or something similar to transfer some simple knob movements over the USB bus - so all logic lies in the driver. I mean, there isn't even a display that needs to be filled by the host.

For almost the same price you'll get a new Waldorf Blofeld synth with comparable build quality, great encoders and a beautiful display. And don't forget the included synth...

Most people I talked to expected the CC121 to sell for 180€ to 200€ street price (199€ to 229€ MSRP range). That sounded fair, a good deal and I'd buy one instantly. But 379€...

Don't get me wrong - I've tried the CC121 and I really liked it for what it is. Good build quality, the controls felt good and the integration into C4 seemed great. Too bad it can't control anything outside the C4 universe but hey, it is a specialized C4 controller after all (and that restriction can be fixed with some MIDI-magic).

My main fear for this product is that it may become "abandonware" very soon. I think for the current price not that many items will be sold. If not enough devices are sold the product will be discontinued. Discontinued products will not be supported anymore. Existing customers are screwed. Simple market mechanisms.

IMHO, YMMV etc.
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chikitin · Junior Member Joined: 12 May 2008 Posts: 67

But it is not possible to use this for 2 channels simultanously. Is it?

hansfunk · New Member Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Posts: 11

My local store just got this ... for €420... Shocked

ptrickey · New Member Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 7

Price is all down to value for money, market forces, USPs and competitive products.
I've just bought the CC121 at £299 because there is no other hardware controller (that I am aware of) that provides such deep integration with the mostly used functions of the Cubase mixer.
It is well built with direct hands-on access to the most commonly used functions of a mixer channel - fantastic!! - except mine doesn't work with my PC (see post "CC121 not working at all with my Carillon Computer").

So - if anyone can fix my problem (Steinberg included) I would be delighted to recommend the product, even at this price!

Otherwise I'll just have to get my money back and hope that Euphonics comes out for the PC!!

delphidebrain · Junior Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 15

I dont think that this is the place of discusting price...
So its is like in the supermarket, "Take it or leave"

Cheers, Delphi
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Eddie Macarthur · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject:

this IS the place to discuss price. if steinberg get feedback here and listen to it, they might sell more units. at a price considered too high (by some, maybe most?), lots of people will not take it but leave it!
at £150 i'd have one sitting on my desk by now.
at nearly £300? no way.
for around that price i could a lovely UAD-2 inside my machine.
something that actually makes a difference to how my work sounds.
p.s. i come from the analogue age, using real faders and knobs and outboard gear (to pre-empt any lectures from forum users about how essential it is to have a control surface for mixing).
Ed
Smile

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jimzepellin · Junior Member Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 44

Potty Harry · Member Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 219

Eddie Macarthur · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:14 am Post subject:

in which case it should be renamed : Steinberg CC½

Very Happy

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Potty Harry · Member Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 219

NomadSjr · Member Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 152

snakes · Member Joined: 19 Jan 2005 Posts: 894

I will only buy one if it´s possible to use the AI knob for my Duende and UAD plugins. Is it ???

Jakes
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Hell Yeh · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: