BFD w/BFDXXL vs DFHS Which Do You Think Is Better And Why?

ZapAxe

I've been considering these and reading about both these softwares...Here are some innitial thoughts & questions...

If answering, please state 'why' in your replys where applicable...

QUESTIONS;

What are some main differences between the two?

Which has better sampled drum sounds?

I hear BOTH can be use with an e-kit or a trigger pad device, anyone have experience in doing this with either?

BFD also has an add on pack called BFDXXL, what does DFHS have in the way of expansion?

Which is easier to use?

Which interface or format do you prefer?

Which do you feel is more of an open ended program? Or can be expanded.

Which company has a better track record?

Which software has more sampled drum sounds in the offereing.

I thought I heard that DFHS is to soon come out with expansion packs & samples much like BFD has now.

BFD also has "converters" (I think they're calling it?) so that BFD can utilize OTHER programs (how, I'm not clear) . Does DFHS offer this, or are they going to?

I 'think' I read that BFD cannot accept any of your own samples into the program?

Can DFHS accept any of your own samples?

XFpansion's DR-008 currently version cannot accept FXpansions 'own' samples from the BFD...Don't know if they plan to be able to in the future...?

BFD has built in (I think midi) rhythms as well as being able to create/use your 'own' rhythms...Does DFHS 'also' have built in rhythms as well as being able to create your own?

All that's on my mind so far...

Steve

Kevin Wright · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:55 am Post subject:

Morning,

I can't really answer all your questions, but no doubt as this thread is added to, they soon will be.

I would say first off, that BFD PLUS the expansion pack is the equivalent to DFHS.
BFD on its own comes on 2 DVDs where DFHS comes on 9 DVDs.
BFD without expansion does not offer brushes, rods, mallets etc and a limited number of cymbals and drums.
DFHS offers Sticks, Rods, Brushes, Mallets, choice of BD beater etc.

So on this basis alone, I think DFHS offers better value for money.

IMO the quality and choice of sounds is better in DFHS. Both offer a huge choice of mic positioning and bleed etc, but DFHS has a cache system to save on your RAM, as loading a big kit can easily get you over the 2 GB mark!

The few preset rhythms that come with BFD are, IMO a joke. But then I never use preset rhythms.

Not much between the 2 interfaces for me, load up the kit and start programming.

I find I use DFHS over BFD just about every time, but it all depends on the sound you need. If money is a consideration then DFHS will win hands down.

That's about it from me.
I'll now stand aside and let others contradict me! Laughing

K
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Magnus · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:21 am Post subject:

I have them both (BFD + XFL & DKFHS), but have not used DKFHS in any project really, so I can't really speak about the differences...

Two things I think is worth mentioning:

1) The BFD family seems to grow in a very nice way. I just got my hands on the BFD 8-bit expansion - with a great number of rare and odd bits of gear. And I really hope we'll see it grow even further. It's really nice to have all those high quality samples in ONE environment. The BFD also does have a DKFH import utility, but I haven't tried that myself.

2) For me, the most creative & rewarding virtual drums setup is to mix several tools, since none of the current really is "perfect" in all areas. I'm no drummer myself, so for me the golden combo is Groove Agent (still the easiest way to draft a nice & living drumbeat) - Stylus RMX (for the weird processed stuff & for the really cool Chaos implementation) - BFD (for accessing those top quality drum samples)
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Angus_FX · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject:

Magnus · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject:

Angus_FX,

Congratulations on launching a successful product !

I hope you'll be able to release a few more add-ons to continue to build on a very nice platform. The way Spectrasonics hand us SAGE expanders is a good example.

Providing a tool for making your own samplesets (both single- and multi-channel) would be VERY nice. I'm going to "request" that... Very Happy

Any chance of giving us a better UI for the MIDI-grooves/patterns ? I mentioned Groove Agent above, because it has a "no hassle" UI that easily allows modifying styles & complexity of patterns together with midi-printing the result. The BFD browser used for this could improve quite a bit on this.

Also, while you're at it... Twisted Evil

... please implement a bit of the intelligent variations-design (e.g. Chaos) that Stylus RMX give us - to make the grooves even more adaptive and unique to our own styles and preferences.

I'd buy that update "yesterday" if you had it.
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/Magnus

Angus_FX · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject:

Hi Magnus,

The content expanders so far...
- XFL
- 8 Bit Kit
- DFHS Import Tool
- Scarbee SID Import Tool
... which takes BFD from 9GB to well over 70, with four distinct sound flavours.

Email me about the samplesets thing. One fun thing you can do is to take your own samples, process them to multichannel with some convolution and other processors to make 11 channels with different room or EQ flavours, then convert them to BFD. Requires quite some spare time though Smile

About the grooves.. yep, we know it could be easier. Originally the Groove Librarian was designed as a tool for keyboard-mapping grooves and triggering them from MIDI keys, rather than as a Groove Agent-style player. The plan for the future (altho' NOT the free 1.5 update) is to make the basic librarian more "Groove-Agent"-alike, and incorporate sequence programming and auto-generation/variation a la Slicey Drummer (which is IMHO both more powerful, and more appropriate for sequenced single-hits - rather than loops - than Chaos).
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Kitchen Sink · Grand Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 4336

Magnus · Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject:

Hello again Angus_FX, and thanks for the reply !

One thing that caught my eye...

DAWgEAR · Member Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 826

I have BFD (still waiting to purchase XFL) and I have never used DFHS. So I cannot comment on the latter.

However BFD can use the DFHS samples. I don't know about the other way around.

BFD sounds outstanding to me. (I know, that is highly subjective.)

BFD sounds like real, raw, recorded drums. YOU need to apply compression, gating, and EQ. With some experimentation, you can get BFD to sound very "produced and polished" but it won't sound that way out of the box. If you want instant gratification, it may not be right for you. Then again, some other drum libraries that have the prduction already applied out of the box are nowhere near as flexible. It's a tradeoff.

Probably the biggest selling point I can mention (and one that is not subjective) is Fxpansion's wonderful customer support. These guys, Angus, and SkoT, and mm are fantastic. Check their forum here. There aren't too many audio gear manufacturers that are that interested in satisfying their customers ... it is a welcome rarity in this industry. Angus has already been here. Smile

ZapAxe · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:13 am Post subject:

Kevin,

Good Eve'...That said, it 'does' appear that DFHS has more value...? Though FXpansion seems to own up to part of their name on the "expansion" part...though I wonder about companies trying to make you buy multiple products to get what you want. I'd really like to just get what I need with one.

I plan to use my Yamaha e-kit with a software program as a compliment, though having some pre-set rhythms to experiment with ain't a bad idea.

As far as DFHS sounding better? I guess that's a matter of taste. I should really have a listen for myself on the audio demo's for both.

So far all the talk here in the forums as of lately seem to indicate more DFHS buyers than BFD buyers...Maybe because DFHS is a newer program?

Magnus,

Great! You have it all...Too bad you can't comment on the DFHS yet.
I agree, it seems that FXpansion is in fact an 'expanding' productand that's a 'good' thing.
I have to say that BFD's interface catches me more than DFHS, but it's all about the ease of use and functinality, both of which I'm not yet sure about.

Angus,

I have a customised & expanded Yamaha DTXpress kit. DTXpress 1 & 3 modules and a DM Pro module with several extra pads. How does BFD do with Yamaha's stuff?

In your 'unbiased' opinion how is BFD & BFDXXL compared to DFHS on CPU drain? As my main use would be with an e-kit, does this mean I would need 'more' or 'less' processing power and/or RAM without using an e-kit?
How well does BFD work with an e-kit in 'Real-Time'?
Is there a User's Group for BFD that I can browse?

Ah, I see, the multi-channel aspect of both programs..Thanks for the clarification.

About the ready made midi beats/rhythms...I can download more of them somewhere? I'm guessing that there are a variety of sources of midi performances that BFD can ultilise?

In all fairness, I'm guessing that DFHS can 'also' make use of 'ready-made' midi rhythms?

I really do not wish to "make" any of my own samples, though I would definately like to see a program be able to load a variety of samples in various formats. Even if they're not multi-sampled with 11 channels.
I'm guessing that this "multi-sampled" thing is relitively new in a program, therefore it will be a matter of time before there are a multitude of sources of multi-sampled sounds becoming available.
But does BFD plan to be proprietory on this? I'd hope not, as I see that BFD has the ability to load in DHFS samples if I'm understanding this correctly..?

As far as the comment about DFHS vs BFD equivilent of the amount of sampled content and -90dB trails...And this XXL expansion pack, etc...It does seem that the cost is significant as well as cost-prohibative for many I'm sure...So wouldn't it be a good idea to offer smaller expansion packs for only 'certain' sample sets? I mean, I myself would not make use out of 'many' samples. For example, I have no use for electronic sounds, many percusive instruments like bongo's, conga's etc...I really only want samples that will fit in my style of music, various rock styles from extremely light-rock-pop to heavy hard-rock...So what I'm saying is that some company's offer sample packs and products for only 'certain' styles.
I myself would amost PAY to have vertain sounds and styles REMOVED, like Rap, Hip-Hop etc... Rolling Eyes

At least I 'think' BFD alows you to NOT load these in your computer, so that you don't have too much 'clutter' to scroll through.

Ah, 1500 preset rhythms...? Again, can others be added, and from multiple-sources?

Steve

ZapAxe · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:29 am Post subject:

Kitchen,

Good idea...Maybe the automatic thing could be simplified in that loading a non-multi-channel sample could automatically copy the 'other' included multi-channel 'ambience' of the room...emulated or modeled ambience..? Of course I have no idea what I'm talkning about here really:?

Daw,

Yes, good support and comminication to their costomers is a very good selling point for me.

It at least 'seems' that BFD and DHFS are in competition with being a similar program to each other. I'm trying to grasp all the features of each. It's also important for me to know where the program is headed in terms of expansion...specifically the ability to import more sampled sounds. But as I said the cost of the XFL - I know I mistakenly have been calling it XXL Rolling Eyes

- But I only want certain sounds, not a butt-load of sounds I'll never use. That's why I said it would be nice if FXpansion offered sampled sounds of specific styles of music. Such as BFD for rock, BFD Jazz, BFD Hip-Hop etc... Idea

Steve

Angus_FX · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject:

Kitchen Sink · Grand Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 4336

Angus_FX · Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject:

On some systems that's true.... always found ASIO4All to be glitchy on my laptop, certainly never got it to do 64 samples reliably without clicks. YMMV.
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Kitchen Sink · Grand Senior Member Joined: 09 Jan 2005 Posts: 4336

ZapAxe · Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:44 am Post subject:

Thanks again Angus,

I'm currently using a DTXpress 1 & a DTXpress 3 module. My Alesis DM Pro in sitting idol, though I may also use it as well or instead of the DTX's...?
Btw, I trust BFD works well with Alesis DM modules also?
As for my ever growing trigger pad count? I have a dual trigger snare, (soon a tripple trigger snare) 2 dual trigger Hi-Hat pads (1 to each module), 2 single trigger kicks (one to each module) 2 single trigger cymbals, 3 dual trigger cymbal, 4 single trigger toms, 1 single trigger Bell cymbal (soon I'll have 2 more). I'll most certainly go Hog-Wild with even more pads Shocked

A bit of concern here...How do dual and tripple trigger pads count in BFD? Can BFD utilise these multi-trigger pads at all?
It's good to know that BFD plans to "EXpand" on the pad count. As far as I can tell, DFHS is limited in the pad count department...(?)
I would 'think' the ability to have 'more' pads, or the ability to 'select' a pad count as you wish or need can't be that difficult... Or IS it:?: ...I mean, let's 'really' put the 'X' in the 'pansion' here Wink

I see your point about producing smaller sample packs only for certain styles, because of different stroke for different folks. ..Even on Eddie Money's "Two Tickets To Paradise" (a rock song) I believe a Bongo was used in there, go figure!
Though I'd still like to see at least a 'somewhat' narrowed down, lower cost add-on pack. Though it's great news to hear that FXpansion plans to keep offering 'more' samples, and the ability to add samples form outside sources.

I'm wondering if FXpansion would actually sell more product, if smaller add-on packs were available? Or somehow one could pick and choose what samples they specifically want?
I can't remember what company did this, but they offered add-on samples in smaller packs at a very low cost.
As one user has said here, he was "waiting" on buying the XFL add-on...This is likely due to the additional cost for many. I as well, would 'wait' on the XFL add-on.

Ok, maybe I'm getting 'cheap-feet' here....But here's an idea that may be "Out There"..But what if there was a 'Pay Per Sample' option? One could audition/demo different audio samples as the FXpansion site already has, and have as a Down Load option Question

I really appreciate your resonces here...Besides, this can only bring more attention to the product.

Steve

Phill2796 · Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject:

I have both apps if you are used to mixing live drums I would get BFD
Both apps are cool and they each have there place in the studio.
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ZapAxe · Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:

Phill,

Yes, either one seems like they would fill my needs. I think now it's down to which has better sounding drum samples that are usable for own style. If one comes with more GB's in samples, it does't mean a hill of beans if I won't use them.

After looking at both programs, BFD's interface seems top make more sence and I really like how they display the virtual drum studio. Now while I've been in studio's with a drum room and have mic'd real drums myself for demo recordings, I've not mic'd drums for a live gig. However, I can relate to how they set the virtual mic's up.

Looking at DFHS, with their own style of 'matrix' interface for room mic'ing, it's not as visually straight forward as BFD.

Though I'll give this much more thought, I'm now leaning more torward BFD than DFHS as of this weekend.

After looking at several programs suggested in my other thread, it seems that BFD and DFHS are the most appropriate for my needs and are an all-in-one solution.

Steve

Phill2796 · Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:02 pm Post subject:

I think you will be happy with BFD from what you have said.
Good Luck
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Angus_FX · Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:31 am Post subject:

twilightsong · Grand Senior Member Joined: 04 Feb 2005 Posts: 4612

I also have both app's, both are very good. I tend to use BFD exclusively. My only complaint is the kicks are a bit TOO unprocessed, but that's a very minor complaint. Also, the MIDI files are bit heavy on velocity (mostly hard rock and funk). Still in all, my favorite plug-in ever made (well, Atmosphere is nice, too)
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ZapAxe · Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:37 am Post subject:

Thanks again Angus for the info,

Wow, the 1.5 release will be just what's needed for my e-kit, as well as many other e-drummers kits. I'm fairly certain that the 'current' number of assignments will be on the light side for most e-drummers, so this is great news. Did I hear a release ETA on that?

As I frequent e-drum forums, I see that many e-drummers often go beyond the 'standard' kit set-ups and do two Hi-Hats, and even two snares, all playable within one song. Many use a multiple trigger/sound module set-up as I do as well. Once an e-drummer has 'more' trigger inputs available, it's only natural to start wanting/buying/using 'several' more trigger pads for various sounds, be it more cymbals, toms, cow bell etc, etc...One guy looks like he has about three DTXteme sets combined into one Shocked

As for the 'selected' samples, that would be great. I think for myself, having more snares at my disposal would be at the top of my list, then more kicks, crashes, rides, etc., etc ..

Having a program, than can be upgraded or expanded upon, and having the option of adding selected samples...Basically, an 'open-ended' system would be excellent. It seems from what I can tell that FXpansion has this name for a reason Wink

Though I don't have much experience in the proper treatment of drums with FX's, compression etc...I'm wondering if this or others have any 'preset' treatments for certain drums?

Once again Angus...I know that BFD can load/use DFHS drum samples into it, but can BFD load DFH#2 samples into it? From what I've read, it seems that DFH#2 has many of the sounds from DFHS. A less expensive solution to access DFHS's samples.

So for me, my main wants/needs are 1st to be able to use an e-kit with a program as this does...and he ability to utilize multiple trigger-pads and mutiple trigger-modules, (beyond a standard acousrtic set) as well as being able to load in samples as I desire. It seems that BFD is at least gearing toward this.

Twilight,

Huh, I think that's about two people here that have both programs and find that they use BFD when given the choice. And since BFD can load DFHS samples into it...?

What turns me off a little about DFHS is this "matrix" grid. It doesn't grab me like the virtual drum room does. BFD seems more 'virtual reality' with their visual approach to things. Though DFHS does have some attractiveness to parts of it's interface.
Though maybe this "matrix" makes sence when you get used to it. It's like Cubase when I 1st got it. When I saw the audio bars in the arrange window for the 1st few times I thought, "what use is this?"...Now I find it invaluable.

I keep going over both programs, and learning what their each capable of in terms of my particular use, complimenting my e-drum recording set-up. Still leaning toward BFD.
I don't think I'll be springing for BOTH applications any time soon. I just hope I'll be happy with the inntial BFD's samples without having to buy BFD XFL real soon. But for the price of XFL, I'm wondering if one shouldn't buy DFHS, just for an alternative batch of drum samples?
...Then again, is there a CD with just the samples from DFHS? I 'THINK' I read that DFH#2 has the samples from DFHS, though I don't recall BFD being able to load DFH#2's samples into it???

Steve

Yossarian · Member Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 434 Location: Sweden

Angus_FX · Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:09 am Post subject:

Yossarian · Member Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 434 Location: Sweden

dr · Member Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 225

Angus,

If I buy BFD v1 will v1.5 be a free update ?

si

Angus_FX · Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:

Yes, 1.5 is free.
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DAWgEAR · Member Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 826

ZapAxe · Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:24 am Post subject:

Thanks DAW,

Yeah, it sound like I'll have a lot to learn with this kind of program vs just accepting my drum modules internal sounds! Sure, I can see how the drum tracks would benefit and have more originality to the overal sound.

Gating..Hmm..I'm not opposed to a little gating, but not back o the 80's overusage days Shocked

I was noticing this "ambience" playing a huge role in the sound, and wondering how much reverb, or should I say how much 'less' reverb I'll be using with all the ambient mic bleeds.

Steve

Angus_FX · Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:41 am Post subject:

It depends... you can get a pretty nice sound without using any reverb on BFD drums. That said, even though it's a really nice sounding room, sometimes you might prefer a pop-y artificial reverb, or some nice convolution reverb.

Talking of convolution and reverb.. one of the things we provide for users is a set of impulse responses of the room at Eldorado so that you can "place the rest of the band in the same room as the drums". Obviously you'd need a convolution-reverb plugin like SIR to make use of them.
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FXpansion Audio - http://www.fxpansion.com