Dongle Terror

[thehumanplugin]

I'm going on tour for a while, I want to bring cubase but I'm terrified of loosing / breaking the dongle!!!

what do I do? how can I keep it safe? Do they make a titanium alloy box that is magnetic to human flesh? I have a feeling I'll using another sequencer
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Cubase 4.52, G5 2.5x2, OS X 10.4.11, Mobile I/O 2882

[sigmatibet]

I think you'd better go with Logic, or Live.
I have the same situation: I own Cubase in the studio, but everytime I go home with the laptop to continue some edit, or I go in another studio for programming I am REALLY afraid I could lose my dongle.
I think Steinberg should think about another way to go against piracy. Or at least let loyal customers have 2 separate dongles that recognize 2 only computers...
I love Cubase but when I can I use Live (that I purchased) when I'm away, or on stage.
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Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core (12GB Ram) - OSX 10.5 - MacBookPro 1,16 GHz - Cubase 5 - Motu 2408 / 308 > Apogee DA16X > Dangerous 2BusLT > Apogee Track2 - Mackie Control+XT - Duende PCIe V3

[quantize]

Agreed, there have been many long repeated calls, particularly over the last few years, for Steinberg to think seriously about making this
protection system a little bit more flexible and fairer.

We were told a year or more ago that the lost/stolen dongle replacement system would be improved, but we've seen nothing.

My last live outing, i moved everything back into Reason 4. It would have been nice not to have to, but just the very risk of taking
that Cubase dongle out of the studio and to think of the enormous grief its loss would cause (with no easy and quick replacement system) means
less people see Cubase out in the real world.

shame.

Piracy of Cubase has been completely halted. You will not find a windows or mac crack of cubase 4 anywhere.
That's great. Now let's make it fairer and better value for the loyal customers. That would be a win for everyone.
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..just like regular chickens!

Cubase 5.1.1.120 • HALion 3 • Reason 4 • ReCycle 2.1.2 • Reaktor 5 •
Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8GB Ram)  OSX 10.5.8 • Motu 828 mkII • TC Powercore Compact • Mackie Control Universal •
MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (4GB Ram) OSX 10.5.8 • Digidesign MBox2 Pro •

[Fitz]

Dongles are a pain in the arse. It's not just the fact that you have to have something sticking out of your laptop turning it into the worlds most expensive lolly ice begging to be snapped and broken, destroying a USB port in the process, what about all the performance hits the sequencer is taking just to check you are 'allowed' to dare run the software you paid for?

I was very pleased to see Apple have scrapped the dongle for Logic Studio 8 (however it could be argued that the Mac itself *is* the dongle, and as Apple make money from every Mac sold, they score regardless of if someone copied Logic) and of course Ableton Live is not dongle inhibited.

While I've performed live with a dongled Cubase, you literally are trusting your entire show (and not to mention, software license) to some stupid piece of tiny plastic that is easily lost or stolen, and that also steals a valuable laptop USB port. The very least they could do would be to make the stupid thing a USB pass through.

The only plus side is that it stops people doing for free what you have paid to do, however with Logic no doubt being widely pirated as we speak, this is becoming something of an academic point.

Did I mention I hate dongles?

[quantize]

I still strongly believe Apple have some tricky revenue raising plan with removing the Logic dongle.

Mark my words, maybe one day 'Pro' will be like Garageband and 'gold' will need a dongle.

There's an ulterior motive always, like you say, it could just be a way of keeping mac hardware prices
propped up over the pc equivalents by the 'iLife in a box' added value.

Of course, once you're in, they own you. Kinda the opposite of the idea of cross platform standards and formats we had
perhaps hoped computer music software was headed toward last decade.

Audio units remain a plugin format nobody needed. I only hear moaning from developers about Audio Units.
And these are people who are not that in love with VST either. But the mention of AU only brings torrents of bile.
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..just like regular chickens!

Cubase 5.1.1.120 • HALion 3 • Reason 4 • ReCycle 2.1.2 • Reaktor 5 •
Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8GB Ram)  OSX 10.5.8 • Motu 828 mkII • TC Powercore Compact • Mackie Control Universal •
MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (4GB Ram) OSX 10.5.8 • Digidesign MBox2 Pro •

[Fitz]

[quantize]

well i did qualify the prediction
_________________
..just like regular chickens!

Cubase 5.1.1.120 • HALion 3 • Reason 4 • ReCycle 2.1.2 • Reaktor 5 •
Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon (8GB Ram)  OSX 10.5.8 • Motu 828 mkII • TC Powercore Compact • Mackie Control Universal •
MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo (4GB Ram) OSX 10.5.8 • Digidesign MBox2 Pro •

[shanabit]

Use another DAW on tour as your DONGLE/License is NOT replaceable except for a $800 fee

I actually like the dongle since Im cross platform. However for touring guys, its SUCKS

A Titanium box would do you well though
_________________
Cubase 4.5.2 , OSX 10.5
Mac Dual 1.8 G5, 4 Gig RAM
Steinberg MR816X

[sigmatibet]

.......if you don't forget it in the hotel room.........
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Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core (12GB Ram) - OSX 10.5 - MacBookPro 1,16 GHz - Cubase 5 - Motu 2408 / 308 > Apogee DA16X > Dangerous 2BusLT > Apogee Track2 - Mackie Control+XT - Duende PCIe V3

[Fitz]

[thehumanplugin]

thanks for all the comments, I was actually toying with the idea of bringing it w/ me but you have all confirmed my worst fears, so I won't...

I'll figure something out
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Cubase 4.52, G5 2.5x2, OS X 10.4.11, Mobile I/O 2882

[sigmatibet]

my opinion: go with Live;
it's a bit different, but in an amazing way!
_________________
Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core (12GB Ram) - OSX 10.5 - MacBookPro 1,16 GHz - Cubase 5 - Motu 2408 / 308 > Apogee DA16X > Dangerous 2BusLT > Apogee Track2 - Mackie Control+XT - Duende PCIe V3

[jp007]

+1 (again)

I hate having to use Cubase with my laptop because of the risks involved. A primary reason I will look at Logic when I go Intel... seems trival I know, but that's how I feel.

[XyZed]

I'm not sure they can get away legally with not replacing your dongle at a fair price. They surely can't get away with charging almost as much as buying the software in the first place - especially for a dongle that is purely to protect them - not the customer! We have to buy the dongle (included in the price) to protect them? That's crazy.

I've read that when you buy any software you buy the right to use it. If your copy gets destroyed or lost you still have a right to use the software. Software is unique in that once they've created it it costs virtually nothing to give you another copy because they can make millions of copies indefinitely. It's not like buying a computer or TV where a replacement has to be made. It's an amazing business to be in, you create a product then can make millions of copies for virtually nothing. Imagine if people who built TV's could make just one - then put it in a machine a duplicate it indefinitely.

There are a lot of unfair clauses in software which wouldn't stand up in court http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252707.stm

Having said that, I appreciate that they are also vulnerable to piracy in ways that "proper" manufacturers aren't but genuine customers should not have to suffer because of this. I also hate the fact that on my iMac the dongle uses up a valuable USB port.
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Intel dual core iMac 2.4 Gz | 4 Gz RAM | Leopard | Edirol 24 bit 96Kz external Sound card | Roland PC-180a Midi Keyboard controller | Alesis ControlPad

[sigmatibet]

What you say is true, but in the other hand you have to think about how much time and money you have to invest on doing such a complex application.
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Mac Pro 2 x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core (12GB Ram) - OSX 10.5 - MacBookPro 1,16 GHz - Cubase 5 - Motu 2408 / 308 > Apogee DA16X > Dangerous 2BusLT > Apogee Track2 - Mackie Control+XT - Duende PCIe V3

[XyZed]

sigmatibet, I edited my post while you were adding yours. I added that I do appreciate that it's a double edged sword in that they are also more vulnerable to piracy because things can be copied. However, so are all software companies. The dongle is an archaic and draconian device that was tried and abandoned in the 80s at least. I remember them being used on Amiga games over 20 years ago. Imagine if most software needed a dongle:-(

My point is that they shouldn't charge a lot of money for a replacement dongle. At the end of the day the dongle, which we pay for, is 100% to protect the software suppliers. They certainly shouldn't profit from supplying a replacement because they've chosen a fragile and cumbersone protection method.
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Intel dual core iMac 2.4 Gz | 4 Gz RAM | Leopard | Edirol 24 bit 96Kz external Sound card | Roland PC-180a Midi Keyboard controller | Alesis ControlPad

[rockinrocker]

[Weasel]

Apple doesn't care if every copy of Logic is cracked because the income loss is being more than underwritten by iPod and iTunes profits. What they make off of Logic is a spit in the barrel compared to the money they practically print from the iPod line of products.

They also know that cracked software will be used by the same people anyway...mostly PC users at that. Mac users are more likely to pay for what they use.

That said, Steinberg should let the dongle be a removable key capable of authorizing at least 2 machines and quit f**ing with us already. Period.

Nice thread title, BTW
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Live from The Cornfield™
QuadCore 2.66 Nehalem w/8gbRAM • OSX 10.6.2 • C5.1.1.120 • C4.5.2 • MOTU 424e/2804MkIII • PODxt • 2-MIDI Express 128's ••• DualCore 2.8 iMac w/4.0gbRAM • OSX 10.6.2 • C5.1.1.120 • C4.5.2 • MOTU/ULmk3 ••• D8B/V5.1 • GenX192.

[Chroma One]

The dongle is a serious risk for anyone who takes to the road, but the challenge/response alternate has major drawbacks as well.

There's no flexibility to move between computers or platforms. Vendors have been known to disappear into the night leaving behind software that can never be reauthorized. (Anyone remember Bitheadz?) Vendors are also tempted to use authorizations as a revenue stream, retroactively requiring paid maintenance plans or denying authorizations for older versions. (Waves?)

The Syncrosoft system already includes a C/R option which Steinberg uses for some products such as Sequel. They could offer the customer the choice.

They've promised their nonreplacement policy would be reviewed for years now with no sign of results.

[Fitz]

Actually another issue I have with dongles is they stem the creative flow.

For example, I sleep with a Mac Book Pro under my bed. Quite often I will wake in the middle of the night with a tune in my head, and want to get it quickly down or maybe I will just feel inspired to work on an existing project, like have a really cool effects idea or something.

Now... I can open the Mac and instantly use dongle free Logic 8 or Ableton to get my idea down. If I want to use Cubase for anything or load an existing project off my server, I have to go hunting for the dongle. The mere fact I have to go looking, acts as a barrier to my creativity. I am loathe to leave the dongle hanging out of the MBP as I am likely to break it somehow, plus I then have to go looking for it to load Cubase on the MP. Besides all that the more you move the dongle around the more likely you are to lose or break it. Better to fit it and forget about it and get rid of any silly ideas like having Cubase on a portable machine.

The other Cubase issue of course is fact you can't simply use the computer keyboard to play MIDI like you can in Logic and Ableton. That would be very useful, however the dongle barrier effectively kills any creativity in the first place where this would be used.

[spencerben]

[hps909]

having the dongle bothers me for 2 reasons... the fact it uses a ( on a laptop) rare usb port .... the thing that annoys me the most is wondering what performance hit the software is taking because of it look at your dongle everytime it blinks during a session cubase is taking time out to access the dongle... how much code is embedded in the implementation of the dongle and how does that interfere with performance ? how much smoother would it run if it didn't take time out every 10 or 20 seconds to see if it is actually STILL!!!! a legal copy ? i mean yeah have a dongle required for startup then have it dormant whilst the program is actually running or have it check when there is zero cpu load.. i'd think you could maybe squeeze a hell of alot of horsepower out without all that redundant code in the software
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I-mac C2D 3.02ghz 4 gig ram, macbook pro C2D 2ghz, 2 gig ram, 10.6.2, Cubase Studio 4.5.2, AL 8.1, TC Electronics Konnekt 48, Edirol FA 66, Korg Microkontrol, Waldorf Blofeld, Alesis Micron, Akai s3000xl

[Dig-Dug]

Although it's not the greatest aesthetic, to have a chunk of plaggy sticking out of your computer,
I don't mind the dongle because it's a way to stop piracy and thus I can understand the (excuse the pun) logic.

However, without a system of '£10 to replace legitimate dongle if lost' policy, then the original logic is lost.

A kind of neat metaphor for the whole of Cubase really, which is close - but no cigar.
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G5 Dual-Core 2Ghz : OS X.4.11 : SE v3 : Battery v3 : Vanguard : Trackplug v5 etc.

[quantize]

[snakenewton]

its funny but i mix sound for major acts in arenas and stadiums.... and i still see the keyboard techs walking round with dongles and iloks hanging round their necks on lanyards with their passes! the whole dongle thing is an issue for anyone who actually buys their software. Ironic really that those of us who support the software houses, by actually purchasing the software, stand to loose it all in one hit. I carry around my ssoft and ilok dongles where ever i am with about $20,000 worth of auths. It is impossible to insure them and I have to admit it gives my the shudders when i actually think about it.

My idea for a properly protected system would be a dongle which stores your auths like ssfot or ilok but all auths are timed for say a month. Each month you go on line and renew the licences on the dongle. The manufacturer would be safe in the knowledge that the lost or stolen dongle would only work for the remainder of the month so their interests would be protected. if you lost the dongle or it was stolen you could go back on line and load the license into a new dongle.

[Weasel]

[Tajika]

Quote:
Dongle authorizes two machines and doesn't need to be present after authorizations. Only needed again to deauthorize and transfer to another machine. I could live with that without blinding myself.[/quote]


I could live with such a method as well. Much more than with the dongle...

I have to take projects along on the road and the dongle always causes me panics!

[sigmatibet]

[Mike Fix]

I'm considering switching to Logic due to the dongle situation. I've recently had a laptop stolen at a show, fortunately my dongle wasn't with it...

The other reason is, I'm sick of moving the damn thing from one studio to another, and sometimes forgetting it, which is a loss of studio time and money.

If I buy Logic, I can run it on my machines and have the freedom to move as my creativity drives me. I really like that idea.

[Weasel]